Why the Auto-Ordnance M1 Carbine Owned the Battlefield

5 Comments

1. Gordon Rutter

   September 9, 2022 at 12:27 pm

   I am a retired forensic firearms examiner. In early 1990’s I was asked to evaluate the M1 Carbine & a
   4″ 357 magnum side by side. 357 used a 125gr H.P. Carbine a 110 gr bullet. Test media was some form of
   high tech plastic material that was used to line a local judge’s bench. -Supposedly bullet proofing same. The M1 Carbine round was obviously more impressive than the 357. At that time the 125gr 357
   round was claimed to be a proven fight stopper. It was also our duty ammo at the time.
   – just sayin

   Reply
2. Ray Flaherty

   September 8, 2022 at 2:32 pm

   For deer hunters the 30 Cal. cartridge was considered borderline and not welcomed in the deer woods. Like the “Grease gun”, it was meant to throw lead in the direction of the enemy. Unlike the “Grease Gun”, however, it could hit the broad side of a barn.

   Reply
   • Richard Kilby

     September 9, 2022 at 10:39 am

     Unlike the majority of people who have never owned an m1 carbine, I do in fact own one, and unlike most people who report stories of the so-called underpowered cartridge, I know for a fact that it is not, my father was a world war II veteran of the United States Navy Seabees. And while most of the time, the Seabees did not have direct contact with the enemy, my father and his 30-man unit along with 15 Marines were attacked by 300 japs, and he told me flat out that he had ran out of ammo immediately with the garand, and ended up using his carbine, and he knows for a fact that he killed at least 10 japs with the carbine at about 100 yards distance, he said “none ever got up after I shot them so I don’t know what people are talking about” with regards to the cartridge and the gun.. that’s first hand knowledge folks, so you can take your uninformed opinions and drop them in the abyss

     Reply
3. Paratrooper

   September 8, 2022 at 11:03 am

   Attachment

   The intro picture tells the story best. Article about carbine is *introduced* with picture of paratrooper carrying the Thompson, which was much preferred over the carbine by combat troops. By that, I mean soldiers with actual combat experience. Then article goes on to claim carbine was popular. Popular, maybe, but only with REMFs who never had to fight. Popular now with collectors/re-enactors who do not grasp stopping power as life and death important to the combat Infantry. Carbine used seriously underpowered pistol cartridge. Jammed easily in dirty/dusty battle conditions due to not enough power in the cartridge to cycle/operate the bolt. After initial experience with jamming and lack of stopping power, Paratroopers armed with carbines, plus Company officers and First Sergeants in Infantry units got rid of carbine and carried Thompson or Garand in both War Two and Korea. The Vietnamese Rangers I advised in 1964-65 were armed with one BAR per platoon, rest were one third Garand, one third Thompson, one third carbine (organizing documents written by some high level US *staff advisors* with no concept of reality, resulted in nightmare ammo resupply situation). Carbine cartridge did not have the range to be effective in open (rice paddy) terrain, and did not have adequate power to punch through jungle vegetation,thick brush vines and bamboo. Where possible, the carbine armed Rangers in unit to which I was assigned, traded their underpowered carbine for Thompson or Garand.
   Paratrooper 49 months Infantry service in Viet-Nam between 1964 and 1969; DD214 to verify same.

   Reply
   • James

     September 9, 2022 at 2:34 pm

     It seems that the 30 Carbine cartridge is either a love it or hate it item.

     Different articles have mentioned that the military was looking for something lighter than M1 Garand and more range than Thompson 45 auto and 1911 models.

     One general liked the 32-20. The others agreed it had to be 30 caliber like the Garand’s 30-06.

     When they discussed this with Winchester, Winchester suggested using the 351 WSL, as it had been used in WW1 by the French, and it was popular with police departments and many prison guards.

     The military didn’t want to use a new (35) caliber, so Winchester suggested using the 32 WSL. They then used the cartridge case but with a .308 bullet.

     The 32 WSL used a 165 grain bullet at 1350 fps, the same power as the older 32-40 cartridge ( which many say is a good deer cartridge).

     The 32 WSL is in the same power range as the 10mm Auto.

     Many wildcats have been made using the 30 Carbine case,

     17 Carbine

     5.57 Spitfire ( or 22-30 carbine)

     25 Carbine. ( Using 25-20 bullets)

     256 Win. Mag. ( Universal actually produced a limited amount)

     Custom gunsmith have rechambered 30 Carbines to
     9mm Winchester Magnum ( not 9mm Luger)
     45 Winchester Magnum

     Iver Johnson Company, back in the 1980’s, was working on a 357 Magnum semi auto M1 carbine, but unfortunately they had financial problems and went bankrupt.

     I wonder if any gunsmith have rechambered the 30 Carbine rifles to 32 WSL?

     Low recoil rifles are popular.

     No one wants to go out and shoot a 300 Magnum all afternoon and get hit with 35 to 40 pounds of recoil.

     That’s why cartridges like 223, 25-20, 30 Carbine, 300 Blackout, 30-30, 32-20, Henry lever action rifle in 327 Federal, 357 Magnum carbines are popular. One can shoot these all afternoon and have fun plinking, shooting at jackrabbit and coyotes. Some can also be used to shoot wild hogs.

     Would like to see the 25 Stevens brought back. Heritage and Ruger could chamber their revolvers for the 25 Stevens.

     Ruger could chamber their 10/22 for the 25 Stevens and call it the 10/25!
     It’s much better than the 17 caliber rimfires.

     Reply